I wasn’t even factoring that in but obviously you’re right! Fiction doesn’t need to follow the rules that any sensible human does. Also, let’s talk about dubcon for a moment. IRL I’d just call that rape or coercion but in fic there’s all these different tags we can use. Dark fic vs. IRL assault are totally different things and I actually prefer having the freedom to use tags in fic that I wouldn’t IRL. As a survivor I appreciate it.

Oh definitely. Like, dubcon is usually a staple of certain tropes (fuck or die or heat/rut sex) that at times it isn’t even tagged because you know if you’re reading fuck or die or heat/rut sex that consent is going to be dubious. I mean, those tropes are completely about a lack of choice or control. Often they’re also used as a catalyst to break sexual tension, but IRL those are horrifying concepts.
But you’re right. I read somewhere (I don’t remember where so this isn’t my idea but it’s a good one) that part of the great thing about Dark Fic or Dark elements in fic is that it gives power to the person writing it. For the survivors of traumatic experiences, that’s hugely important because it gives us control over the things we once had no control over, and by labeling something like coercion as dubcon it puts the scene or event in a new light. It doesn’t erase it or minimize it (at least I don’t think it does) but kind of puts front and center that the consent was dubious at best. I also think it allows us to take a step back from it as well and that seperation can be a good thing. Now, granted, I think there should be more open and honest conversations about what consent actually is and what it means but I think those are conversations we should have as a society and a community and shouldn’t be on the shoulders of fanfic authors. (And it definitely shouldn’t be used as a way to shame or admonish fanfic authors either.)
Sorry, that got kinda rambly.
But yeah, Dark fic and assault are two different things. One’s imaginary and the other is real. And I’m glad that the freedom to tag them differently is helpful to you.

I don’t use trigger as a joke but is there something between squick and trigger? I have things that bother me in fic because of rl events but I don’t really have a mental illness and it’s not panic attack inducing just upsetting. I feel like squick is for kinks that just aren’t for you. Like I might say scat or needles squick me out. But I worry that saying abortion or miscarriage trigger me is to too far. Squick doesn’t sound right either though because it’s more than just “it’s not my thing.”

chiisana-sukima:

I myself (another person with diagnosis-qualifying-level triggers) don’t personally mind people using “trigger” for the level of stuff that is beyond squick, in much the same way I don’t mind people saying “I’m so OCD” or “I’m so depressed today” in ways that aren’t technically correct. Mostly the reason I don’t mind it is that 1) it’s nobody’s business how severe a person’s distress is or is not after the person has mentioned being distressed by something. And 2) people tend to minimize. So even when someone jokes “I’m so OCD today”, I don’t actually know that doesn’t mean they aren’t kinda close to medically diagnosible OCD and just joking it off. Or that maybe they are not in fact diagnosible but are still significantly distressed in some other way that they’re minimizing.

For example:

rosemoonweaver:

I’m glad you asked this question, anon. 

To me, and I think to most people who actually have negative physical and psychological responses to certain things, “trigger” is for something that causes really distressing thoughts and reactions that either start a panic attack or give me symptoms of panic (like tension in the chest, fear, obsessive thoughts, guilt, impending doom, and things like that). So I don’t feel bad about saying “humming is a trigger of mine” because if I hear another person humming a tune I will start to have a physical and psychological response to that. I may not actually have a panic attack, but I do need to breathe deep and do what I usually do when I feel panic coming on. 

But for something I’m just not comfortable with for whatever reason, “squick” is the term I use. You’re right when you say that fandom circles to tend to associate “squick” with kinks you’re not into, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using it for non-kinks. Like, if I say I’m squicked out by student/professor relationships (except in roleplay) then that just means I’m not comfortable with those and would rather not read them. There isn’t anything wrong with that. To my understanding, “squick” is supposed to mean “I’m not comfortable with this” and you don’t have to justify why that is to anyone. You don’t have to explain your level of comfort or why it makes you uncomfortable, all you have to say is “it squicks me” and that should be enough. 

The issue with saying that something is a “trigger” when it isn’t is that it muddies the line between “this makes me uncomfortable and I’d rather not deal with it” and “this causes me actual distress and spurs negative reactions I cannot control”. Because here’s the thing, a person can put their squicks aside at times. A person can ignore mild discomfort, and might actually grow to like something that once squicked them (I think of A/B/O for this because a lot of people I talk to were initially squicked by A/B/O and changed their minds.) Triggers are much harder to overcome and they require a lot of work, dedication, and therapy to get to the point that they no longer bother a person. And sometimes a person will never get over a trigger. Sometimes a person needs to voluntarily and safely expose themselves to the trigger in order to get past it, sometimes they just can’t and they have to learn to live around that. 

So, my advice to you is that you use “squick” for things that make you uncomfortable but don’t cause severe physical and psychological distress and to explain to people who ask (if they ask (side note: I don’t think they should because what you don’t have to justify what you aren’t comfortable with to anyone else)) the difference between the two terms. “Trigger” is a strong word with strong connotations and should not be taken lightly. And, if that word doesn’t feel right, you can always say “I”m uncomfortable reading about X” and that should be good enough for anyone who asks. If it’s not and they want to give you shit about it, tell them to bite you. (Or send them my way, I’ll give ‘em what for.) 

I have things that bother me in fic because of rl events but I don’t
really have a mental illness

If it distresses you because of real life events then personally I feel like “trigger” is a fair term. Distress is individual; no one can tell you your real life-related distress isn’t meaningful enough to count. You might consider the “friend test”- if you would consider it distressing for a friend to have gone through it, then it counts.

That said, medically iffy usages also, as rosemoonweaver rightly points out, lead to jerks feeling less guilty about acting like jerks too. So it is a double-edged sword. And I feel like on balance, it’s pretty easy to err on the side of caution. So I also in the end think it’s better not to use words like “trigger” too lightly, if in fact you are not very distressed, and that in those cases “squick” is a better choice, or just “I’m not comfortable with that”. (I also recommend the all-purpose “I have issues” in some contexts. As in, “No thanks, I have issues” [wry laugh]. It’s light and humorous, and while it does make people curious, so it can lead to some awkwardness, it also makes them know they should back the fuck off if you indicate you’d rather not discuss it. Kinda like “we’re estranged” does)

Btw, the reason I’m really butting in (which I hope is okay, @rose) is that I want to second rose’s offer to bitchslap people for you if they hassle you after you use “squick” or “uncomfortable” in lieu of “trigger”. Because I will be happy to personally make them so uncomfortable with all the ugly TMI details around my triggers that they will have an entirely new appreciation for “uncomfortable” as a meaningful adjective. People get paid the big bucks to listen to that shit for a reason.

@chiisana-sukima Sorry it took me a bit to respond. I just want to let you know that I definitely don’t mind this addition to my answer. And you’re absolutely right about the point that what’s “significantly distressing” to one person may not be the same for another person. I just want to clarify that I in no think it’s up to other people “how traumatized” or “how distressed” a person is. I’ve been seeing a strain of gatekeeping recently that revolves around “you must be this traumatized to write/read/avoid X” and that is something I abhor. I don’t want to sound like one of those people, but I also don’t want to seem like I’m backpedaling on my statement. It’s a very personal issue, so I think it’s important for everyone to know what the terms mean and to judge for themselves their levels of comfort with things. There’s no shame in using a word like “trigger” if it qualifies but there’s also no shame in using a word like “squick” or a phrase like “I have issues with this” if “trigger” is too strong a word.
I think you put it best when you said: 

And I feel like on balance, it’s pretty easy to err on the side of caution. So I also in the end think it’s better not to use words like “trigger” too lightly, if in fact you are not very distressed, and that in those cases “squick” is a better choice, or just “I’m not comfortable with that”. (I also recommend the all-purpose “I have issues” in some contexts. As in, “No thanks, I have issues””

And if anyone feels the need to make anyone explain their squicks or triggers they can go sit on a cactus.

i know what you mean – i obssessed about hits on my CBB for a while (i finally gave up. i’m not gonna get the number of hits jhoom or unforth does) and i’m positive about the reason why too – things i tagged no matter how brief and non explicit just to be safe are probably scaring people away 😦 *HUGS* but your story was awesome!

Yeah, that’s the pain with including that kind of things in fics. Like, I’m not saying they shouldn’t be tagged (they obviously should be) but they do tend to scare people off. And I know I’m guilty of that, too.
*hugs* I dunno, kinda bites but *shrugs* it is what it is.

But, you see, that’s the thing. Cheating is a very personal thing to define. What’s cheating to one person isn’t for another. I’ve totally read fics where the writer used the infidelity tag and a reader was like “i don’t think this is cheating?” And I’ve also seen the opposite. It’s this really tricky area that isn’t always easy to pinpoint.

That’s definitely true. It’s one of those things where what’s cool in fiction is different than what’s cool IRL too. Like, I’d be soooo pissed if half the things that I’ve read (or written lbr) happened to me but because it’s fiction it’s not that big of a deal. Most of the time.

Could be. I’ve never seen people freak out about cheating with my favorite poly ship, especially if there’s a happy ending but Wincestiel is also a much bigger poly ship, it seems. There’s more room to play.

True. I mean, when it comes to polyships there’s a lot of…. questionable skirting of the rules of good communication that could be classified as cheating (imo). Esp if it’s a polyship like wincestiel or deanjimstiel, ‘cause brothers. No one really gets too worked up about it, I don’t think. Or maybe they do?
I dunno.

I don’t only because this way lies madness and I have a shit memory and can never remember who’re mutuals, and who I just talk to a lot.

Well, for me, if I end up talking to a person I’m most likely going to follow them back. I tend to like having mutuals. But most of the time I don’t pay attention unless we talk a lot or if I know who they are because they’re a “big name fan” and I’ve been following them for a while. I recently had a few people I really liked follow me but I have no idea how to approach them (or why the hell they’re actually following me anyway.)