@unforth-ninawaters replied to your post “@unforth-ninawaters replied to your post “I’m just gonna say this:…”

I wonder if it comes from the same place that glorifies Dark Side stuff and has resulted in Hux/Kylo Ren having more almost double the number of fics as Finn/Poe on AO3? Like, Star Wars fans as a group – forget about individuals here – seem to be a more racist, misogynistic crowd than many others.

And the frequency with which I see merch for the dark side EVERYWHERE has hit the point it makes me profoundly uncomfortable both as a consumer and as a mom. Like…why would I want to dress my kid as a Stormtrooper?? WTF kind of message is that???? Yet everyone acts like this is totally normal? The whole thing is so weird to me, tbh. And you know I like Star Wars, but something is off in all this. Like the anti-Nazi message got lost somewhere along the way and it’s instead become something of a haven for white supremacists. And again it’s far from everyone but we all know it doesn’t take more than a small percentage to be really awful people for it to really make a general impact. 

Both actresses deserve better.

Okay. I’m gonna try to do my best with this because it’s actually really complex. The Star Wars fandom isn’t just one fandom, not really. Being as big and as multi-media as it is and with the old EU and the new EU, no two SW fans are the same and no two clusters of fans are going to focus on the same things. This is a fandom that spreads across decades and multiple platforms. It’s really hard to get a read on the demographics because of that. SW tumblr, for example, skews female but SW reddit skews male and both have very different reasons for acting and reacting the way that they do, regardless of whether or not the results tend to wind up the same. 

A huge part of the issue, from what I’ve seen, doesn’t have much to do with Ky/uxers. From what I’ve experienced, there’s extra pressure on those shippers to “properly demonize their faves” and to get upset when others who happen to be fans of either Kylo or Hux don’t seem to be doing the same thing. I do think there’s an element of “two white dudes to ship” that does contribute to the popularity (because it is the most popular ST ship on Ao3). In that respect, I do think that there’s an issue. However, there is a very loud and aggressive contingent of fans that don’t appreciate people who write F/nnP0e the wrong way. There is a very aggressive contingent of fans who will harass multishippers and refuse to interact with certain fans just on the basis of who their faves are and what they ship, to the point of cutting folks off from enjoying art, often because of fear. The fandom itself can and does sour folks from enjoying certain ships and characters. Now, of course I don’t doubt that there are certain implicit biases some people have that lead them to like ky/ux over f/nnp0e and that’s definitely an issue but I’m hesitant to say that that’s the whole problem, just from the way I’ve seen folks act. 

To be completely honest with you, I think there’s two main factions that cause a lot of strife for this particular trilogy. One is on the side of “star wars is the most progressive thing to ever progressive and Rose Tico is anti black because she tazzed Finn and everyone who likes Kylo is a nazi” and the “star wars has been cucked by the sjws and it’s not cool anymore because Rey’s a mary sue”. The end result is the same, unfortunately. Both factions create this toxic environment where it’s okay to harass people or suicide bait them or just be a huge monster because those folks over there are wrong and need to be punished. Granted, the tumblr faction seems to focus more on individuals than the reddit faction (for lack of a better term) does but the vocal minority is very vocal and cruel. 

And I do think the fandom as a whole tends to be more racist and misogynistic. The shit leveled at KMT is abhorrent. The shit I’ve seen leveled at Kathleen Kennedy is abhorrent. I’ve seen black r3ylos called slurs. I’ve seen jewish r3ylos called antisemitic slurs. And I’ve seen those things justified as either “criticism” or totally justified for some ass-backward reason or another.  The scary thing, to me, is that the people who claim to be against abuse and racism and misogyny are all for it when it’s up against someone they don’t like. The people who are fine with using racist and misogynist language against others while claiming to be against those things are people I find more on tumblr than anything else. 

As far as the darkside and all that goes, I honestly don’t know. I understand your concerns. I’m just very hesitant to blame the franchise for making the bad guys look cool because… well… that’s kind of the point. You want your bad guys to be iconic and you want to sell toys. If you have a group of kids playing Star Wars in the backyard, not everyone is going to be playing Luke. I do get the fact that the villains are nazi-coded is uncomfortable and troubling, though. I’m hoping that it will vary when the ST is done and they move on to whatever the next thing is. Maybe then we’ll get bounty hunters or something else. Maybe there is a correlation there, but I’d have to take a closer look at all that crap and I really don’t want to. 

When TFA came out I wasn’t super into Star Wars. I was, however, much more active in certain circles online, like the refutation of anti-feminism and the affirmation of feminism. Anti-feminists latched on to SW hard. It was the biggest tragedy in the world because their precious childhood was being ruined by women and black men and their villains weren’t even cool anymore (too feminine was the argument). If you’ve been watching that from g@mer g@te to present, you’ll see how the rage of fanboys has morphed into alt-right sympathy or support. That’s troubling as fuck. According to this article I read about a week ago, the same fans who took credit for attempting to tank The Last Jedi’s Rotten Tomatoes score also tried it with Black Panther. I personally think that the unchallenged racism, sexism, ect ect has been given a fertile ground to grow in. There’s an element of ownership that combines with the toxicity that’s already there to create a stew of disgusting and potentially dangerous vitriol. 

Just from what I’ve seen and experienced, it comes on two fronts. I can’t honestly say which is worse, though. I just know that there’s a mountain of shit. 

And you’re right. The actresses deserve better. 

And you know, maybe some of this is my responsibility, too. I don’t reblog this stuff. I’ve been holding off because I really don’t know anyone in the SW fandom at this point and I feel like throwing that kind of stuff on my dash might get overly negative, but maybe I should. I’ve been struggling with what to say and when for weeks, but maybe this is my breaking point.